How EJAE and Mark Sonnenblick Created "Golden" From KPop Demon Hunters

You know, sometimes I just open a track and,

you know, feel it out, but this track.

[track harmony playing]

So beautiful.

Instantly I felt inspiration.

♪ We're going up, up, up it's our moment ♪

♪ You know together we're glowing ♪

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

Hi, I'm Ejae, singing voice of Rumi and also

one of the songwriters in K-Pop Demon Hunters.

I'm Mark Sonnenblick and I'm also

one of the songwriters for K-Pop Demon Hunters.

And today we are breaking down

the song Golden in K-Pop Demon Hunters.

The way that a lot of the songwriting would happen

is so you have Maggie and Chris who are the co-directors,

they're telling their story.

When you're working on a movie, that's where so much

of the songwriting for a musical movie starts.

And so they knew that they wanted this song in this slot.

I mean there were some great songs written,

but like both in terms of the songwriting,

and in terms of what they wanted from that moment,

they hadn't quite figured out.

And as that came together, that's kind of where it was like

okay great, we think we have an idea.

And let's have, we'd already done How It's Done

and Your Idol, the two of us and Black Label.

And the mantra.

And the mantra. Yeah, yeah.

Golden was the last one.

The last one that we did.

They also kind of gave us a guideline of what they wanted.

For example, like it's about,

the word gold should be in it somewhere.

You know, it's about her wanting to seal the Honmoon.

To be gold.

Therefore the melody and the lyrics had to express that.

Meaning high notes.

Yeah.

♪ It's our time, no fears no lie ♪

♪ That's who we're born to be ♪

Rumi's voice is this magic voice.

And in this moment in the story, like only her voice,

she's told herself, she's put all this pressure on herself,

that my voice is the voice that's ultimately

gonna help make the goal.

Seal the Honmoon.

The Honmoon.

But by the end of the song, in the movie,

the patterns have, we can do spoilers.

We're gonna do spoilers.

Yeah. You've seen the movie.

You better have.

You better have if you're watching this.

But the patterns have started to take over her voice

and she loses her voice, her ability to sing that high note.

And that's when she's like how am I supposed to seal

the Honmoon if I don't even have my voice?

Exactly, so it was like intentional having it so high.

♪ I'm done hiding, now I'm shining ♪

♪ Like I'm born to be ♪

It had to show off Rumi's vocal abilities.

I hope I did it well.

[laughs]

I think so, I think safe to say.

I think so.

And also just like lyrically speaking

we needed to give like vulnerability to the characters.

It was an introduction to the characters,

like what they're going through, right?

[Mark] Yeah.

And I love how you described it.

It was an anti -

False victory song.

False victory song.

[Mark] Yeah.

Exactly 'cause in the bridge,

you know, it sounds like a song that's like really hopeful

and you're reaching for that dream.

But in the bridge it kind of breaks down

to Rumi's vulnerability.

♪ Waited so long to break these walls down ♪

♪ To wake up and feel like me ♪

♪ Put these patterns all in the past now ♪

♪ And finally live like the girl they all see ♪

And then it's ironic 'cause in the scene,

no more hiding, I'll be shining,

while she's hiding.

[Mark] Literally.

Her patterns, yeah, so that irony is there.

It's quite bittersweet.

That's kind of how the inspiration

and how the direction started.

And it can be really, like for this it's pretty specific.

Like, we're building it out.

It starts with them going we need to hear about

Mira's backstory, Zoey's backstory, Rumi's backstory.

And we're getting, you know, they'll send like a monologue

that Zoey might say, or like a description of what it is.

And so then part of what we're doing is going okay,

what is the song structure that can get this information?

So in the song, the first eight lines,

the first four lines are Rumi's backstory.

I was a ghost, I was alone.

And she's given the throne.

I didn't know how to be the queen I was meant to be.

She's inheriting it from her mother

who was also in one of these hunter trios.

So she feels pressure that way.

♪ I was a ghost, I was alone ♪

♪ Eoduwojin apgilsoge ♪

♪ Given the throne, I didn't know ♪

♪ How to believe I was the queen that I'm meant to be ♪

You know, Zoey's story, she grew up in Burbank,

but she's Korean American and torn to these two places.

So her identity crisis.

♪ I live two lives, try to play both sides ♪

♪ But I couldn't find my own place ♪

So that's two lines for her, two lines for Mira

♪ Called a problem child 'cause I got too wild ♪

♪ But now that's how I'm getting paid ♪

♪ Kkeuteopsi on stage ♪

That with the animation you can actually

get this this deep backstory.

Then we know that there's gonna be in this pre-chorus

this rising thing that can kind of represent all of them

and this hope that they have to realize

who they are by being a part of HUNTR/X

and ultimately sealing the Honmoon.

♪ We're dreaming hard, we came so far ♪

♪ Now I believe ♪

The bridge that we know is gonna happen

in order to set up the final chorus

where she can't sing the note.

The concept is built out with, you know,

from the directors that we built out, but then,

you know, we actually have to write the song.

Sonically I think they wanted something

that's kind of bittersweet, I would say.

I think part of it was them being able to,

kind of in the way we just did,

realize oh this is the story of the girls.

Oh, here's how we can map it onto

this realization in the bridge.

For a moment we were thinking maybe Rumi's

kind of like I want an emotional thing that's gonna be -

Be more vulnerable I think is the idea.

Yeah, yeah.

With all of our songs, how it starts is like, you know,

they have to approve the instrumental, the track first.

So in this case, for us with Golden, you know,

it was Black Label, you know, Teddy,

24, and IDO who created the track.

And with us, it was a collaboration with us.

Yeah, Black Label basically produces

the music and the instrumental.

The instrumental that Maggie and Chris

is looking for in that scene.

Yeah, well and actually with this

it even started with the BPM.

[track beat playing]

It was like okay great, this is the energy.

Like this is before they even have

the instrumentals on the top of it.

[beat continues]

Just to kind of make sure like as you kind of learn

what the directors want and need,

like that's where they start.

The directors are like okay great,

that seems like the right energy in,

you know, helping facilitate this.

Exactly.

It was this one.

It's the very first one.

[track harmony playing]

Not that different.

Yeah.

[harmony continues]

[track beat playing]

I got this track in the car on my way to the dentist.

And, you know, sometimes I just open a track

and, you know, feel it out, but this track.

[track harmony playing]

So beautiful.

Instantly I felt inspiration.

And that doesn't happen that often.

But this one I definitely felt it.

And the melody came very quickly.

Once I got a melody in my head, had to put it down.

A famous tool for songwriters, voice memo.

[Mark] Yeah.

And I have the voice memo

I recorded immediately when I had heard it.

And so this is, should I show you the voice memo?

Yeah! Play that voice memo.

'Cause you're listening to the track,

you're kind of like vocalizing over it,

and then you, you know, you.

Exactly.

I mean Ejae's melodies are insane.

Thank you.

[background noise playing]

[Ejae singing first melody]

That's the first melody I heard.

And then the second one is this one.

[Ejae singing second melody]

You know, that was in Korea. Daytime.

He's sleeping.

And I was excited, and we had a session that night.

I think.

Yeah.

Yeah, we did have a session that night.

And what I would do is I, you know,

after I got my gold filling, I came back home.

And literally just freestyle a bunch of melodies.

In this case I had the hook melody, so I put that down.

Kind of fleshed it out.

And then, you know, what I always do with Mark

is I prepare like different melodic ideas.

For the verse and the pre.

And I gave him like four options I think.

And he would pick and we would

kind of Frankenstein together what melodies we like.

And yeah, and in this case what was great about this

was like, you know, I had the.

[sings in Korean]

Right?

He had this idea of saying, Wait, Ejae, I have this idea,

'cause he puts a bunch of lyrical ideas.

Yeah, while Ejae's like listening to track and melodying.

Melody-ing? What's the...

Top-lining.

Top-ling. Right, right.

I'm like trying to just,

knowing that none of these are probably,

none of the lines are literally gonna make it in,

but like, I'm sort of just like brainstorming.

And again, kind of knowing all right,

we gotta do Rumi, we gotta do Mira and Zoey.

But like.

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

♪ Got to be golden, gonna be gonna be ♪

Like this is just.

♪ Everybody love my mama ♪

This is terrible.

Like, but it's just kind of to be like

here's a pitch of some lyric ideas.

♪ All I'm trying to do is live up to her legacy ♪

♪ Bow down, give me the throne ♪

♪ About to be crowned, gonna make it my own ♪

♪ Grew up split, double identity ♪

♪ Didn't fit who I pretend to be ♪

♪ Never made sense, never made friends ♪

♪ Now I'm selling out stadiums daily ♪

♪ I was a difficulty child ♪

♪ Now I'm getting paid to get wild ♪

♪ Tell me to shut up ♪

So like there's some ideas

that ultimately make it into the songs.

It was, again, literally just the universe

is just everything happened for a reason

'cause like I had the.

♪ Na Na Na Na Na Na Na-Na. ♪

Gonna be gonna be golden.

It was just a perfect fit.

And in my melody you can hear me say.

♪ Na na na na golden ♪

♪ Mmm never chosen ♪

Something like that.

Guess the first idea I gave him was this one.

[singing in Korean]

♪ Ba Da Ba ♪

♪ Ba Da Ba ♪

[singing in Korean]

♪ And you already decide ♪

♪ And I don't want to make you better ♪

♪ When you're coming by ♪

♪ No I don't want to make you sad ♪

♪ The way you had in mind, in mind ♪

♪ We'll both pay for the waiting ♪

♪ How did I not even notice ♪

It's like, shifted.

Sounds really good.

♪ Up, up, Da-Da-Da-Da-De-Ya ♪

[singing in Korean]

♪ We're going up, up, up, we're going golden ♪

♪ Now that I know where you're going ♪

♪ Now that I know that you're knowing ♪

♪ Oh up, up, up, go do what they do ♪

♪ How do I know where they're going ♪

♪ I wanna go where they're going ♪

♪ Ooh I don't wanna ♪

Yeah.

Ooh, I did it.

♪ Weigh you down on me ♪

Why'd I do that?

You did it to yourself.

I did.

I think before creating the lyrics,

I mean again, I did read the guidelines,

so I knew it had to be something about being golden,

trying to seal the Honmoon,

and her having this like vulnerability

and that yearning to, you know, get her dream.

Which I, you know, definitely related to

especially at that time.

And you know, I think, you know,

things were just not happening for me

and just not going the way I wanted it to go.

And so like I think, and when I heard the track,

what, you know, really struck a chord.

It just kind of felt bittersweet,

and that's kind of how I felt.

And I think I kind of did the emotion

not lyrically, but melodically.

As you can hear.

It's probably why I think it's like resonated.

[Ejae] Yeah.

Around the world.

Yeah.

Like because you hear.

The emotion.

The story in, yeah, in the melody.

For me, when I write songs

I actually first go with melody.

Melody is always my thing.

And whatever I'm feeling,

I kind of try to translate my emotion through melody.

I mean I was desperate to want my dreams to come true.

And I put that in the melody.

Why is why.

♪ Na na na ♪

[Mark laughs]

Manifested.

Surely went up up.

That melody is just, and obviously

I think like an iconic melody.

You hear it, hear it.

Mark was, his face, he was just like,

Ejae, this is amazing.

Like immediately.

And we've worked long hours

and I've never had that reaction.

I kind of heard it with Your Idol,

but this one he was like Ejae, that's amazing, like.

[Mark] Yeah.

Oh my god, like, the melody's incredible.

Yeah, I try to be supportive usually.

Like no matter what I would be like oh, this is pretty good.

Yeah. Pretty good.

No, like it was -

This is like mmhm.

And also because we'd heard these other songs

that are amazing, and it's not to say

that one of them also couldn't have been a huge hit.

But having, you know, we're trying to find

this last song for the movie, and knowing

that it has to check all these boxes,

and hearing, again, the story in the music

and what you top-lined was, it's just like a dream.

A little dream coming true.

Well yeah, it's fun 'cause like, you know, again,

I like to be prepared and give my options,

and when we Frankenstein together

which I also learned was like, you know,

you pointed out like having the pre

being also the hook and all that stuff.

♪ I'm done hiding, now I'm shining ♪

♪ Like I'm born to be ♪

♪ We're dreaming hard, we came so far ♪

♪ Now I believe ♪

It can be good in the pre and post.

That was the point. Yeah, exactly.

And you're like let's just leave it like that.

Let's just keep it that way, yeah.

[Ejae] Was kinda what it was.

Because that melody, that like.

[piano melody plays]

Is so good, and exactly like Ejae played it in the pre.

And then where it is in the chorus in the second half of it.

But yeah, you were kinda like

well we can't put it in both place.

Yeah, exactly, 'cause my K-Pop DNA

is like you can't use the same melody.

So if I'm gonna put in the pre I'm gonna do.

♪ Na na na ♪

Like do that.

If I'm gonna put in post I'm gonna do

♪ Wanna be ♪

It was like, for me it was like either the two.

Yeah.

Pick one.

And you were just like no.

♪ Oh I'm done hiding, now I'm shining ♪

♪ Like I'm born to be ♪

♪ Oh our time, no fears no lies ♪

♪ That's who we're born to be ♪

Yeah, because we also know we only have,

especially the first time it's in the movie,

you don't get through the whole song,

it's like you get through most of it,

but in two minutes you gotta hook an audience.

And to be able to put it in the pre,

second half of the chorus, and it's in the bridge too.

Yeah.

You literally hear it I think four or five times

to make it this memorable thing that then

Marcos puts it in the score, it like shows up

with these amazing emotional moments.

Yeah, exactly.

And when it comes back at the end

you feel like oh, I know that song.

Yeah, and so when we did that we're like okay,

then we need like a second verse.

♪ I've been around, I've been around ♪

♪ Out of my way, out of my way ♪

♪ Holding me tight, making the right ♪

[singing in Korean]

♪ 'Cause you're making a moment ♪

♪ When we sat here and my body said ♪

♪ Ba-Da-Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba ♪

♪ Ba-Da-Ba-Ba-Ba ♪

♪ And my head held high, and it'll be all right ♪

♪ Ba-Da-Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba ♪

♪ Ba-Da-Ba-Ba-Ba ♪

♪ I'll notice ♪

So that was like a different version.

And when, it was like.

Then you're like that's great.

Yeah, partly 'cause I thought it was really catchy,

but also it's the selfish thing of like

we only have eight lines to tell these girls' story.

Exactly, we need words.

Yean, musical theater, I'm always like

let's put 500 words and you're like.

It's a pop.

Simplify. We gotta like, yeah, yeah.

And also we had a pop approach to this.

A pop hit formula approach that I learned from Max Martin.

Sorry.

[laughs]

Saw his interviews. I love him so much.

You know, like always like coming in the melody differently.

Like.

I was like.

I was, what do you call that?

I was a ghost, it's like the second beat?

Yeah, second beat.

Yeah, and then this one goes like.

♪ Da Da Da ♪

Has a pickup line.

And then the chorus has a different kind of pickup.

It comes in differently and rhythmically it's different.

So you always have to have the verse

and like the second verse pre kind of bringing in

different elements to have an earworm kind of effect.

And that was also, it checked that box too.

Yeah.

[Ejae] So it was perfect.

Yeah.

[Ejae] But yeah.

♪ We're going up, up, up it's our moment ♪

♪ You know together we're glowing ♪

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

♪ Oh up, up, up with our voices ♪

♪ Yeongwonhi kkaejil su eobsneun ♪

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

I also really appreciate that they wanted the hook,

the chorus that repeats itself, to have Korean in it.

Duh, I mean I don't speak Korean, so.

I mean to be honest, like that choice was the directors.

It was directors and the studio, you know, Sony Animation.

And Netflix, they wanted to have Korean in it.

It was important.

Yeah, like, you know, huge shout out to String.

Who is the head of Sony Music Pictures.

They really want that, you know,

authenticity was really important.

And you know, Korean, the language is so beautiful

and it has like a different nuance

and message to it in Korean.

And just sonically it's just nice.

And it's K-Pop, so it just, it was beautiful,

and it was their decision of where to do it.

I feel like they'd typically be like,

'cause we'd have for the most part a draft in English.

[Ejae] Yeah.

So that everybody knew what the song meant.

Exactly.

Who didn't necessarily speak Korean,

but then, you know, Maggie would be like

can there be some Korean in the chorus

or somewhere in that, you know, in the first verse,

can we make sure to have some Korean line.

♪ I was a ghost, I was alone ♪

♪ Eoduwojin apgilsoge ♪

♪ Given the throne I didn't know ♪

♪ How to believe ♪

So that was important, and I think being bilingual

is a really important part and asset in this project

because, you know, Korean has like its own nuances

of like just sonically and like,

you know there's certain words in English

when you sing it could be a little awkward.

Like I always use comfortable like.

♪ This is uncomfortable ♪

You can't do that. It's odd.

So, and also I noticed in a lot of some K-pop

like the Korean lyrics and the English lyrics

don't rhyme when it should

And that's also part of the earworm.

And for me it was important for that to rhyme, so.

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

♪ Yeongwonhi kkaejil su eobsneun ♪

Like I wanted that rhyme.

And it also has that meaning of we'll never break.

♪ Gonna be gonna be golden ♪

♪ Oh up, up, up with our voices ♪

♪ Yeongwonhi kkaejil su eobsneun ♪

So yeah, that was kind of the Korean lyrics

coming into it.

It was always amazing getting,

I mean with Golden in particular I think,

but like getting those translations back,

or just like hearing what you did,

because you do have to find the sound that is right.

And as someone who doesn't speak Korean,

to hear it just obviously fit naturally on the music,

but also mean the same thing

that we had been working on.

And rhyme.

Yeah yeah.

[Mark] It's like.

That's why it was important -

[Mark] Four things at once.

Being bilingual was so helpful.

And also because I was a singer, and I'm Korean American,

and I'm gonna be singing these songs,

it had to be comfortable for me.

I think part of the reason

it broke through in the way it did

certainly is 'cause the movie is what it is,

but also because the message in the music is optimism,

and hope, and this idea of coming into yourself.

And even though, I mean talking to Ejae

about her experience as we were writing,

and with so much overlap with Rumi,

it was so integral to like writing the songs,

but it was also universal to me too.

In different ways.

You know, the things I've hidden and the things

that I've dreamed of that haven't happened.

And just knowing that that way in is something

that you're always looking for when you're songwriting,

and that's part of just, you know,

it comes from Maggie and Chris in the beginning too

and the story that they want to tell.

For me it's...

Phew.

Okay.

K-Pop idol training was a whole thing.

My dream was always to become a singer

and I had to kind of, you know,

I did intentionally choose not to be an artist.

I kind of let that go.

'Cause songwriting kind of fit my personality more,

and songwriting really truly did save me during a dark time.

It was like therapy for me, so this song, when I wrote it,

the melody and all was kind of very therapeutic for me.

Like seriously, like songwriting,

this industry's really hard.

Like things sometimes just never happen.

It takes sometimes a long time,

and I've been rejected so many times,

so like it's just, you know, like I just,

one thing I've always like, oh gosh.

Oh god.

Sorry.

[Adam] Take your time.

Regretted when I, you know, came out of SM

was I couldn't let, you know, little Ejae's dream come true.

And I felt so bad 'cause she worked so hard.

And I did feel like a disappointment.

But like when Golden happened

my mom would always tell me.

In Korean it's called mari ssiga doenda.

Meaning whatever you say out loud,

the words you choose will become a story.

So all the songs I've written for K-Pop

have been very not the best positive words.

I have a song called Drama Armageddon.

[Ejae and Mark laughs]

So it was a nice opportunity

to write a song called Golden.

And it's just about, you know, it's not,

I feel like there's different types of hope.

You know, there's a hope where like

I can do it and you're being badass,

but this one I think for me, at least in the instrumentals,

it was a bittersweet kind of hope.

Like you feel like giving up every day,

but there's like this little part in you

that like keeps saying you can do it,

so just keep holding on, and I think.

Oh god.

So yeah, this song really did help me

go through a hard time.

Which is why when I sing it, it was like I did cry.

And the fact that this is helping everyone else too.

And not just like, you know, having fun.

This helped so many people go through a hard time.

And I would have messages from fans saying like,

you know, a loved one passed away and nothing felt good.

And then I heard Golden.

And it saved me.

That just, I broke down, I just felt so honored.

And I think the biggest thing for me was the Instagram post.

Someone sent me a post of a person.

In their last moment.

They chose to have Golden be sung to them.

A nurse.

And the nurse changed the lyrics.

And for that to be the last song they hear before they pass.

It's the greatest honor.

I, yeah, thinking, just watching you

record like in your bedroom.

[Ejae] It's hard not to cry.

Two years ago, I mean I...

Yeah, I mean you know what happened.

Overwhelmed. Overwhelmed.

Yeah, so.

I, yeah.

I'm just so overwhelmed and proud

and grateful to everybody.

I'm so grateful to you as well

'cause we worked really hard.

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell.

And just like how lucky.

How lucky.

You just never, you get so many phone calls.

To work on different things and you're just like I don't,

and like from the first couple times that we were.

Yeah, we were locked in.

It's amazing, and I'm so moved and proud of you.

I mean I just like.

And definitely, yeah, and your friendship too.

You know, that means a lot.

Thank you so much, Mark.

I appreciate you.

[Mark] It's just overwhelming.

Sorry, yeah, this is, it cannot not be emotional, guys.

[Adam] Stop there.

Let's, we'll do tail slate.

Thank you.

Oh my god.

This is crazy.

It's crazy. It's amazing.

It's amazing.

[Ejae] Thank you.

We're just changing the world, that's all.

[outro pop melody]